Episode 13: Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg (The Notorious RBG)

Ruth Bader Ginsburg inspired many during her 87 years of life, and certainly during her 27 years serving as a justice on the US Supreme Court, the 2nd woman to ever do so in America. 

Ruth was strong in her values and the absolute definition of grit. She would be notably dubbed "The Notorious R.B.G." by a law student via a popular Tumblr page, and named on Forbes magazine's list of The World's 100 Most Powerful Women, and Time magazine's 100 most influential People.

So, how did Ruth break through multiple glass ceilings for men and women in her lifetime and what legacy does she leave behind? Find out today on the Controversial Figures Podcast.

Connect with us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FiguresPodcast

Episode Sources:

• A Look Back at Some of RBGs Biggest Achievements. Breeze JMU.  https://www.breezejmu.org/culture/a-look-back-at-some-of-rbgs-biggest-achievements/article_5543fa14-0124-11eb-80fe-1f6d6eceaf7b.html
• How to Remember the 'Notorious RBG'. CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/opinions/ruth-bader-ginsburg-notorious-rbg-deeper-meaning-joseph/index.html
• RBG. Documentary. Magnolia Pictures. 2018. https://www.rbgmovie.com
• Ruth Bader Ginsburg. https://achievement.org/achiever/ruth-bader-ginsburg/
• Ruth Bader Ginsburg apologizes to Colin Kaepernick. CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/14/politics/ruth-bader-ginsburg-apologizes-colin-kaepernick/index.html
• Ruth Bader Ginsburg Fast Facts.  https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/07/us/ruth-bader-ginsburg-fast-facts/index.html
• Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Kaepernick protests. CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/10/politics/ruth-bader-ginsburg-colin-kaepernick/index.html
• Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg
• Ruth Bader Ginsburg Wishes This Case Had Legalized Abortion Instead of Roe v. Wade  https://time.com/5354490/ruth-bader-ginsburg-roe-v-wade/
• Music: The 6 is Silent by Skyjelly

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Transcript

00:00

Ruth Bader Ginsburg inspired many during her 87 years of life, and certainly during her 27 years serving as a justice on the US Supreme Court, the 2nd woman to ever do so in America. Ruth was inducted into the National Women's Hall of Fame, named on Forbes magazine's list of The World's 100 Most Powerful Women, and Time magazine's 100 most influential People.

00:28

Justice Ginsburg was viewed as a moderate judge known to be a consensus builder when joining the court. But she would later go on to lean more liberal in her rulings as she grew as a person, and as the American Supreme court shifted to a more Conservative position over time.

00:44

Ruth was strong in her values and the absolute definition of grit. She would be notably dubbed "The Notorious R.B.G." by a law student via a popular Tumblr page; referencing the late Brooklyn-born rapper The Notorious B.I.G when referring to Ruth's strong dissents. 

01:03

So, how did Ruth break through multiple glass ceilings for men and women in her lifetime and what legacy does she leave behind? Find out today on the Controversial Figures Podcast.

01:16

Musical Interlude

01:43

Welcome to Controversial Figures; a podcast about intriguing figures in the media. My name is Tammy Hawkins. If you enjoy this podcast, please leave a 5 star rating and comment on Apple Podcasts; it really helps others find the podcast. We are on Twitter @figurespodcast if you would like to suggest any controversial figures.

02:03

And finally, thank you so much to those that donated to Patreon. Donating to Controversial Figures on Patreon helps me continue to bring new content - and you will get a shout out on a future show. Alright, now let's discuss the distinguished Justice Ginsburg.

02:23

Joan Ruth Bader was born in Brooklyn, New York on March 15, 1933. Ruth was the second daughter of Celia and Nathan Bader. Ruth's father, Nathan, was a Jewish emigrant from Odessa, Ukraine. Her mother Celia was born in New York to parents originally from Krakow, Poland.

02:46

Ruth would unfortunately never remember meeting her elder sister Marylin, as Marylin died of meningitis at age six, when Ruth was only 2 years old. 

02:57

Ruth's moth Celia would put her full attention into Ruth after the passing of her first daughter. Ruth's mother was known to be extremely intelligent. In fact, Celia had graduated from high school at 15 years of age. However, Celia's family chose to send her brother to college instead of her, so she was not able to progress her education further. 

03:22

Celia dreamed of much more for her daughter Ruth. Celia heavily encouraged Ruth to study hard, spending hours in libraries with her to bolster her learning. Ruth called her mother loving and strict. Celia had a dream that her daughter Ruth would become a high school history teacher some day. And soon, Ruth would blow this dream out of the water.

03:47

However, sadness would unexpectedly mark Ruth's life yet again when her mother Celia died. Celia had struggled with cancer throughout Ruth's childhood years, and would die the day before Ruth's high school graduation. While devastated at her mother's death, Ruth would immediately head to college.

04:12

Ruth earned her bachelor's degree at Cornell University in 1954 and married Martin D. Ginsburg. Ruth is quoted as saying she fell in love with "Marty" as she called him because quote, "He was the first boy I ever knew who cared that I had a brain." 

04:32

Ruth and Martin had met at Cornell on a blind date and quickly fell in love. But, despite becoming a married woman, Ruth felt firmly about continuing her education to achieve her dream - which was that of a law career. A dream that was very unusual for a woman in the 1950s. 

04:53

One of my personal favorite quotes from Ruth Bader Ginsburg that reflects her hard working I-can-do-anything-a-man-can-do attitude, which may I remind you is also quite controversial in the mid 1950s, is: "Even if you meet Prince Charming, be able to fend for yourself." Yes, Ruth, Yes.

05:15

Soon Ruth would become a mother just before starting law school at Harvard University. Ruth would be one of only 9 women in her class of over 500. 

05:30

While attending Harvard, Martin Ginsburg was diagnosed with testicular cancer. During his illness, Ruth would attend his classes, as well as her own, and type all his papers and notes from his friends. 

05:45

Even with the added responsibility of caring for her ailing husband and their child on top of her own law school career, Ruth won a coveted seat on the Harvard Law Review. To make the law review - you had to be in the top 25 of the class.

06:13

Ruth's husband, Martin Ginsburg, made a complete recovery, and after completing his studies at Harvard, joined a law firm in New York City. In the next few years, he became a highly regarded expert on tax law. 

06:29

Ruth, of course following her husband, would then transfer to Columbia Law School to stay near Martin, where again she was invited to join the esteemed Law Review. Any student being appointed to both the Harvard and Columbia Law Reviews was unprecedented, let alone for a female in the 1950s. Ruth was already acknowledge as being one of the best lawyers in her class by 2 Ivy League schools - quite the endorsement of her hard work and intelligence. But it would take a lot more for Ruth to obtain paid employment after school.

07:06

Remarkable Ruth graduated joint first in her class as a Kent Scholar in 1959 above all of her schoolmates, and while experiencing snubs from males in her schools throughout her collegiate career. A female graduating as first in the class was unheard of prior to Ruth accomplishing this at Columbia Law.

07:28

I'm going to take a brief segue at this moment to tell you how much I admire Ruth. I personally have worked a career in information technology often focusing in areas of artificial intelligence, security and more recently gaming - frankly a conglomeration of industry sectors that have not always traditionally been known to be extremely welcoming to women. I never let that industry reputation dissuade me from doing work I enjoy. And I want to change that perception and that type of environment.

08:01

In the past 20 years I've worked in these industries, I have experienced misogyny, unwanted advances, unconscious bias, and lots of things in between. I've witnessed these experiences make some women leave the workforce. And I've witnessed better decisions made and solutions built when women do not leave the workforce, and instead have not only a voice but true agency within a business to change things for the better. Those experiences have motivated me to want to do more for diversity and inclusion. To lead by example, and not accept behavior that treats anyone as lesser than.

08:45

But I know damned well what I little I have faced in my time has been much, much nicer than what Ruth faced 70 years ago in the 1950s. As a time frame reference, in the 1970s, employers in most states in America could legally fire a woman for being pregnant and in 12 states husbands couldn't be prosecuted for raping their wives. Ruth observed this inequities and it was the fuel in her fire to work hard to be the change she wanted to see in the world. As you have heard, and will continue to hear throughout this podcast tale, Ruth's life is a tale of hard work, stamina, and resiliency. 

09:37

Ruth is someone that has strong values in her core that drove her with a passion to truly make a difference in this world. She will let no one hold her back from that; but she also found the right balance with love and family in her own home. And it inspires me to want to continue to be a better and stronger person. To fight hard while loving strong. We stand on shoulders of hers and many others that came before us to push for equal rights.

10:09

Ruth didn't want to change the world through protest. She wanted to change it through law. But Ruth immediately experienced she would not be easily accepted as a female lawyer in the workforce. A firm that had employed her between terms at Harvard failed to provide a permanent position. Of the 12 firms with which Ruth interviewed, not a single one offered her a job. 

10:44

In fact, Professor Albert Sachs of Harvard personally recommended Ruth to the Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, emphasizing she was the only lawyer he knew that made the law review for 2 Ivy League schools while also graduating top of her class, the Supreme Court Justice declined to offer her the post of law clerk. 

11:12

Ruth would eventually be offered a clerkship with Judge Edmund G. Palmieri of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York. It is said Columbia law professor Gerald Gunther pushed for Judge Palmieri to hire Ruth as a law clerk, threatening to never recommend another Columbia student to Judge Palmieri if he didn't give Ruth a chance. 

11:36

This is an example of how important an ally can be. If this man with status had not opened the door for Ruth, we might not be talking about her amazing accomplishments today. An ally can open a door to potential greatness. Ruth served in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York for 2 years from 1959 to 1961. After obtaining this experience, Ruth would received several offers from major law firms. 

12:20

However, Ruth instead returned to Columbia Law School, to work on the law school’s Project on International Procedure. She became associate director of the project, taught herself Swedish and traveled to the University of Lund to study the Swedish legal system. It is said Ruth's time spent in Sweden influenced her views on gender equality, as she was inspired that 20% of legal students in Sweden were women.

12:52

After her studies in Sweden, Ruth became a professor at Rutgers Law School, teaching classes on civil procedure throughout the 1960s-70s. Inspiring countless students with her diverse life experience and deep legal knowledge. It should be noted, when Ruth accepted the job at Rutgers Law School, she was informed that she would be paid less than her male colleagues because she had a husband with a well-paid job.

13:21

Ruth later moved from Rutgers to Columbia University Law School, and became the first woman to receive tenure there. Ruth would co-found the Women's Rights Law Reporter, the first Law journal in the US to focus exclusively on women's rights. And she co-authored the first law school casebook on sex discrimination.

13:45

In 1972, Ruth Ginsburg co-founded the Women's Rights Project at the ACLU or American Civil Liberties Union, and she became the project's general counsel. The Women's Rights ACLU projects participated in more than 300 gender discrimination cases by 1974. As the director of the ACLU's Women's Rights Project, Ruth argued six gender discrimination cases herself before the Supreme Court between 1973 and 1976, winning five.

14:00

Instead of asking the Court to end all gender discrimination at once, which was a very large and risky task - Ruth Ginsburg charted a strategic attack path, taking aim at specific discriminatory statutes and building on each successive victory to create a pattern of case law improving equal rights. She would often highlight carefully how the disadvantages to women also impacted men in her arguments, to show that equality benefits all parties when had.

14:59

The laws Ruth Ginsburg targeted included those that on the surface appeared beneficial to women, but in fact reinforced the notion that women needed to be dependent on men. Her strategic advocacy extended to word choice, favoring the use of "gender" instead of "sex", after her secretary suggested the word "sex" would serve as a distraction to judges. She attained a reputation as a skilled oral advocate, and her work led directly to the end of gender discrimination in many areas of the law.

15:36

Ruth Ginsburg continued to appear frequently before the Supreme Court, arguing cases of sex discrimination. One of the most important of these was Weinberger v. Wiesenfeld (1975). Stephen Wiesenfeld was a male widower who had been denied the Social Security child support benefits that a woman would have received in the same situation. 

16:18

Ruth's victory in this case was followed three years later by another in Duren v. Missouri. State law in Missouri had made jury duty compulsory for men but optional for women. Ruth Ginsburg argued that this devalued women’s contribution as citizens, and once again Ruth's position prevailed. By this time, she had earned a national reputation as a leading advocate for the equal citizenship status of men and women.

16:51

And as a side note, I'll remind you she did this while giving birth to her second child, her son James, and caring for her daughter Jane.

17:09

In 1980, President Jimmy Carter appointed Ruth Ginsburg to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, where she served from 1980-1993.

17:29

After 13 years on the Court of Appeals, Ruth was appointed to the United States Supreme Court by President Bill Clinton. 

17:38

And during the nomination process it should be noted that Ruth took a couple of controversial stances.

17:46

She made a clear statement on the equality of choice for women in relation to their medical health, including the right to abortion. I am going to read her full statement, as I think her words speak volumes more than mine. This is how Justice Ginsburg stated her legal approach to the matter, from Time magazine article titled "Ruth Bader Ginsburg Wishes This Case Had Legalized Abortion instead of Roe vs. Wade."

18:21

"Ruth told the Senators that she “first thought long and hard” about abortion rights when, as a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union, she took on Struck v. Secretary of Defense, a case that was on the Supreme Court’s calendar during the same term that Roe was decided. Susan Struck was an Air Force Captain who got pregnant while serving in Vietnam and sued the Air Force after it said she would have to either get an abortion at the base hospital or leave if she wanted to have the child. She told the Air Force that she didn’t want to get an abortion; she wanted to use the vacation days that she had saved up to give birth and then put the baby up for adoption because abortion violated her Roman Catholic faith.

19:12

Here’s how Ginsburg explained her approach — that sex discrimination includes discrimination because of pregnancy — to the Senate Judiciary Committee:

19:22

First, that the applicable Air Force regulations — if you are pregnant you are out unless you have an abortion — violated the equal protection principle, for no man was ordered out of service because he had been the partner in a conception, no man was ordered out of service because he was about to become a father.

19:43

Next, then we said that the Government is impeding, without cause, a woman’s choice whether to bear or not to bear a child. Birth was Captain Struck’s personal choice, and the interference with it was a violation of her liberty, her freedom to choose, guaranteed by the due process clause.

20:05

Finally, we said the Air Force was involved in an unnecessary interference with Captain Struck’s religious belief.

20:14

So all three strands were involved in Captain Struck’s case. The main emphasis was on her equality as a woman vis-à-vis a man who was equally responsible for the conception, and on her personal choice, which the Government said she could not have unless she gave up her career in the service.

20:34

In that case, all three strands were involved: her equality right, her right to decide for herself whether she was going to bear the child, and her religious belief. So it was never an either/or matter, one rather than the other. It was always recognition that one thing that conspicuously distinguishes women from men is that only women become pregnant; and if you subject a woman to disadvantageous treatment on the basis of her pregnant status, which was what was happening to Captain Struck, you would be denying her equal treatment under the law…

21:13

The decision whether or not to bear a child is central to a woman’s life, to her well-being and dignity. It is a decision she must make for herself. When Government controls that decision for her, she is being treated as less than a fully adult human responsible for her own choices."

21:41

As you can imagine, while Ruth's stance was controversial to many, it was also extremely well explained with real case law. Real people. Real lives. It was very bold for Ruth to put herself so clearly forward on such a fire starter topic in America. 

22:02

Regardless, the US Senate confirmed President Bill Clinton's nomination of Ruth Bader Ginsburg to the US Supreme Court by a 96-3 vote on August 3, 1993, an incredible margin during a rather partisan time in America.

22:22

Ruth was sworn in on August 10, 1993 as a Supreme Court justice. She would be the second woman to ever serve on the court, filling the seat previously held by Justice Byron White. Between Sandra Day O'Connor's retirement in 2006 and the appointment of Sonia Sotomayor in 2009, Ruth was the only female justice on the Supreme Court. She would ultimately go on to be the longest-serving Jewish justice on the court.

22:57

On the high court, Justice Ginsburg was often called on to rule in cases regarding the rights of women and issues of gender equality. In 1996, she joined the majority in United States v. Virginia, ruling that the state could not continue to operate an all-male educational institution (the Virginia Military Institute) with taxpayer dollars. 

23:26

Justice Ginsburg emphasized that the government must show an "exceedingly persuasive justification" to use a classification based on sex. Virginia Military Institute proposed a separate institute for women, but Ginsburg found this solution reminiscent of the effort by Texas decades earlier to preserve the University of Texas Law School for Whites by establishing a separate school for Blacks.

23:54

It would be September of 1999 when Ruth Bader Ginsburg would be diagnosed with colon cancer. She would have a successful surgery late that year to remove the cancer, which was followed by chemotherapy until June 2000. To make it clear what a strong woman Ruth was - She underwent surgery, chemotherapy and radiation therapy, all without missing a single day of service on the bench.

24:25

In the year 2000, Ruth would join in the majority opinion in Stenberg v. Carhart, striking down a Nebraska law banning so-called “partial birth” abortions. 

24:39

In December of 2000, Ruth would be the one of the four dissenting votes in the Bush vs. Gore case in regards to the disputed presidential election. For those of you that might not have been around then, it was a very tense time in America. And I fear we may revisit this tense time again here in the coming months with the Trump/Biden 2020 election.

25:07

The 2000 United States presidential election was held on Tuesday, November 7, 2000. On election night, it was unclear who had won, with the electoral votes of the state of Florida still undecided and with different news stations reporting different winners. The voting returns showed that Bush had won Florida by such a close margin that state law of Florida required a recount, a state in which George W. Bush's brother, Jeb Bush, was Governor at the time.

25:43

A month-long series of legal battles happened, with the ultimate decision being taken to the United States Supreme Court. In a per curiam decision, the Supreme Court ruled that the use of different standards of counting in different counties violated the Equal Protection Clause, and ruled that no alternative method could be established within the time limit set by Title 3 of the United States Code, which was December 12. 

26:15

The vote regarding the Equal Protection Clause was 7–2, and regarding the lack of an alternative method was 5–4.

26:24

With the recount having been ended by this Court decision, Bush won Florida by 537 votes, a margin of 0.009%. This meant, Bush won 271 electoral votes, one more than a majority, despite Gore receiving over a half million more total votes nationally. This was the fourth of five presidential elections in which the winning candidate lost the popular vote, and is considered one of the closest elections in US history. 

27:24

So, go ahead and note that scenario I just described: that of a contested Presidential election being taken to the United States Supreme Courts insisting a decision on who is president be made by the courts due to the Title 3 of the United States Code which mandates a President be appointed in reasonable time. 

28:26

In another notable decision, Ruth dissented vehemently in the Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire in 2007, in which an Alabama woman sued unsuccessfully for back pay to compensate for the years in which she had been paid substantially less than junior male colleagues performing the same job. Lilly Ledbetter wanted to sue her employer, Goodyear, for gender-based discrimination.

28:54

 The court told Ms. Ledbetter she should’ve sued earlier instead of waiting until after the 180-day statutory charging period.

29:07

In a 5–4 decision, the majority interpreted the statute of limitations as starting to run at the time of every pay period, even if a woman did not know she was being paid less than her male colleague until later. 

29:23

Justice Ginsburg felt so deeply about this dissent that she read it from the bench, which is rare for a dissent. Justice Ginsburg found the result absurd, pointing out that women often do not know they are being paid less, and therefore it was unfair to expect them to act at the time of each paycheck. 

29:43

Justice Ginsburg also called attention to the reluctance women may have in male-dominated fields to making waves by filing lawsuits over small amounts, choosing instead to wait until the disparity accumulates to clearly make the point. As part of her dissent, Ginsburg called on Congress to amend Title VII to undo the court's decision with legislation.

30:08

The U.S. Congress would later address the issue of pay equity through legislation known as the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009 signed into law by President Obama, making it easier for employees to win pay discrimination claims.

30:22

Throughout these controversial decisions in her career, Ruth made friends at work. Although Ruth was usually identified as a member of the Court’s liberal wing, she enjoyed very positive relationships with the more conservative members of the Court, including her only female predecessor, Sandra Day O’Connor, and her longtime friend and fellow opera lover, Antonin Scalia.

30:48

In February of 2009 it was announced that Ruth had surgery and treatment for early stages of pancreatic cancer. Ruth would be back at work in the Supreme Court within 12 days of her successful operation.

31:05

In March 2009 it was announced Ruth would be undergoing chemotherapy to treat her pancreatic cancer. She would recover from these cancer episodes, but unfortunately, Ruth would lose her husband Martin to cancer in 2010, four days after their 56th wedding anniversary.

31:24

And our dear Ruth would not escape this podcast without some more controversy. On July 11, 2016, Ruth criticized the presumptive Republican presidential nominee a "faker". Ruth's full quote about Trump was, according to CNN: "He is a faker. He has no consistency about him. He says whatever comes into his head at the moment. He really has an ego. ... How has he gotten away with not turning over his tax returns? The press seems to be very gentle with him on that."

32:04

This CNN quote was after Ruth had also been quoted by the New York Times as saying "I can't imagine what this place would be -- I can't imagine what the country would be -- with Donald Trump as our President."

32:24

Trump immediately responded on Twitter saying "Justice Ginsburg of the U.S. Supreme Court has embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. Her mind is shot - resign!"

32:39

A few days after the quote, Ruth issued an apology and said the remarks were inappropriate for a judge to make. Ruth said, "On reflection, my recent remarks in response to press inquiries were ill-advised and I regret making them. Judges should avoid commenting on a candidate for public office. In the future I will be more circumspect."

33:03

Then unfortunately Ruth would face another small rift of controversy on October 12, 2016 when she was interviewed by Katie Couric and gave her reflections about Colin Kaepernick kneeling at National Football League games in the United States. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, at 83 years of age, said  of Kaepernick and others, she thinks their actions are "dumb and disrespectful".

33:32

"I would have the same answer if you asked me about flag burning. I think it's a terrible thing to do, but I wouldn't lock a person up for doing it. I would point out how ridiculous it seems to me to do such an act."

33:45

Colin Kaepernick responded immediately after the interview, saying it was "disappointing to hear a Supreme Court justice call a protest against injustices and oppression 'stupid, dumb.'

34:00

"I was reading an article and it refers to white critique of black protests and how they try to de-legitimize it by calling it 'idiotic, dumb, stupid,' things of that nature, so they can sidestep the real issue. As I was reading that I saw more and more truth how this has been approached by people in power and white people in power in particular."

 34:27

In a statement released 2 days later by the court's public information officer on October 14, 2016, Ruth Ginsburg said "Some of you have inquired about a book interview in which I was asked how I felt about Colin Kaepernick and other NFL players who refused to stand for the national anthem. Barely aware of the incident or its purpose, my comments were inappropriately dismissive and harsh. I should have declined to respond."

34:57

In December of 2018, The Supreme Court announced that Ruth had two cancerous nodules removed from her left lung at a New York hospital. The doctors stated they had removed all of the cancer found.

35:11

In August of 2019, The Supreme Court announced Ruth had been treated for pancreatic cancer again. Again, the doctors stated they had removed all of the cancer found. By January of 2020 Ruth Ginsburg stated she was cancer free.

35:29

On May 5, 2020, Ruth had a nonsurgical treatment for a benign gallbladder condition at The Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore. And one day later, on May 6, Ruth participated in the Supreme Court's teleconference hearing from the hospital, and was discharged from the hospital later in the day.

36:11

However, on July 17, 2020, Ruth Ginsburg announced that her cancer had reemerged and she has been undergoing chemotherapy since May.

36:22

Sadly, Justice Ruth Ginsburg died at her home in Washington, D.C., on September 18, 2020, at the age of 87, from complications of metastatic pancreatic cancer. It is reported her final quote to her granddaughter Clara Spera before she passed on was, "My most fervent wish is that I will not be replaced until a new president is installed." That wish was not honored, as President Trump has proceeded with a Supreme Court nomination of conservative court nominee Amy Coney Barrett.

37:07

I only scratched the surface of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's life in this podcast. If you enjoyed this story, I would encourage you to watch the RBG documentary mentioned in the show notes, as they go into much more depth on this hard working and intelligent woman.

37:24

So, what do we take away from the life of Ruth? I think that is for each person to reflect on. For me, Ruth shows grace and grit while undertaking significant challenges in her life. The strength of being a woman fighting for equality while also being a mother, wife, legal professor, and lawyer. Helping yourself and your husband make it through law school when he has cancer; never stopping your career when you have cancer. Just never giving up when things got tough. 

38:17

I also personally reflect on the United States Supreme Court nomination process and wonder if there is a better way that judges should be appointed and rotated to reduce the partisan fight associated. A process with that is fair and trusted, so that judges in their later years could be able to retire without the fear of the values they fought so long and hard for may be reverted back if they step away for their health.

38:45

One of my favorite Ruth quotes is that the ideal number of women for the Supreme Court is nine, because why not - 9 men was a satisfactory number until 1981. Let's keep pointing out how absurd such long held preconceived notions and unconscious bias can be. 

39:04

Most importantly, let's take away what it means to have solid values you never compromise. That you will fight for. Literally until your last breath to make this country a better place. That is what I will remember most about Ruth.

39:20

I am so moved by the work Ruth Bader Ginsburg has done for equality, that I felt compelled to do something. This month I donated all Patreon earnings to the American Civil Liberties Union in Ruth's honor. Thank you to those that are Patreon members for helping make that donation. 

39:48

Many in America to do not have the funds to take their cases through the arduous and expensive courts systems. These can included cases for simple human equality that are fundamental to evolving our case law to support Americans in this day and age. This donation is a small thank you to organizations like the ACLU and petite powerhouses like RBG giving their legal expertise and time, so that these cases can make it to the Supreme Court and create freedoms for us all.

40:26

Thank you for listening to this episode of Controversial Figures. Please like, subscribe, and leave a rating and comment for Controversial Figures in your favorite podcast app. We have a Twitter page now @FiguresPodcast - so please follow us, give us recommendations of Controversial Figures you'd like to hear.

40:42

This podcast is an independent podcast created by Tammy Hawkins. This is funded by those that donate, so please join Patreon and give what you can - once I hit 50 Patreon subscribers, I'll send out swag to all donators! And I'll give shout outs during the show to anyone that's donated. Research references are available in the show notes as are musical references. Thank you so much for listening, thank you so much for your support - be well.